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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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even with the western winds

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[Music]

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taking me away

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don't need a telescope to see

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where we need to live free

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[Music]

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and this is for all the voices

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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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but it takes enough heart to bother

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unidentified aerial phenomena

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[Music]

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meaning is blurry as it gets attention

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[Music]

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filled up in my room with documents in

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gotta go the distance or you'll end up

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with torture

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[Music]

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positive in nature

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but harmful making me safer

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forget it started long ago

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many eyes on the sky

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[Music]

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but it takes enough heart

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to bother

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phenomenon

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[Music]

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couldn't hear these noises

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hello everybody um i hope you enjoyed

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that little music snippet i

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put some pretty cool pictures behind it

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um

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pretty pretty

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pretty interesting ones for sure if you

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have time take a look back at that but i

42
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plan on also doing like an episode where

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we're just looking at the pictures

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because there's hundreds

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and hundreds of them for sure so

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uh we will do that at some point um it's

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just tough because there is so many and

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sometimes you want to know more about

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them first

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um so you know it's got a twofold i'd

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like to show you the pictures but i'd

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also like to grab the cases and you know

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find out what the deal is with them

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first you know

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but that being said hope everybody had a

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very very happy new year

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um

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mine was

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i had a great

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new year's eve um

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i was sleeping probably

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10 30 maybe

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[Laughter]

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11 with covid and everything it just

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didn't make sense to go out and um

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uh you know my wife uh has a very

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public type job and everything and we

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you know um parents are older and stuff

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so just didn't make a whole lot of sense

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but you know me i was still looking at a

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bunch of ufo stuff and hanging out with

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her

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and i made cheeseburgers so that was

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pretty cool um so first of all just want

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to say what's up to everybody

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um diesel girl

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daniel

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paranormal pixie love the name

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um

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uh jos of course josh uh the sparky lady

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um

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who else we got in here k42d your video

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by the way k42d uh people seem to like

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that a lot on twitter that's for sure

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um

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that was a that was a popular one on the

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the tweeter verse

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so uh good job there

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um then we have lionel f thank you

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um hopefully you are doing well

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um toby surfside grand master

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um

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megan t what's up so happy everybody's

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joining us today misty guys jason fay

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what's going on um so today we're going

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to do a pretty neat show we're bringing

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on somebody that you're familiar with in

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the chat that's for sure his name is

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robert colford

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he's brought some interesting documents

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to the table and you know me i like

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those interesting documents

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um

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and so we're going to discuss those a

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little bit

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so we're going to take a

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you know a time travel

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mechanism and go all the way back

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to start um

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you might go back even further than that

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so

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that's for sure and um i hope you join

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us join me tomorrow i'm gonna go over

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the

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um

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lonnie zamora case tomorrow i have a

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bunch of documents on that i think a lot

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of people haven't seen

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a good amount of them because um

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you know in the archives i think most

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people just see the

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the new mexico

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uh folder and

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and see what's in there but they failed

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probably to find the other ones that

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were in a different states folder

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[Laughter]

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so that is very interesting and i can't

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wait to share those with you um so we'll

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do that tomorrow and on wednesday we

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have uh

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mr christopher sharp

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from liberation times and our dear

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friend jay christopher king will be

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making a return

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so wednesday look out for that as we

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review the past year i know everybody's

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doing their reviews and everything

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um

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which usually makes me not want to do

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stuff like that you know but

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but you kind of have to because it was

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such a good is such a big year so

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um we are going to do that uh but

145
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without further ado i think i'll just go

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ahead and bring him in

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uh mr robert copford

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um how are you today

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sir hey hey

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good to see you

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you've been um

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you know had some surgery and all that

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kind of stuff and

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um got your booster shot so how are you

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feeling with everything

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finally coming around

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yeah

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good good to hear probably who knows how

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much of it was me

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but uh

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i remember hearing beforehand you know

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this was one of those this last

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operation for my hernias was

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you know don't worry you'll be up and

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around in no time you know

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yeah of course the reality of it was the

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very second i'm out of anesthesia

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[Laughter]

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so it took me a couple more days getting

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through that but then all of a sudden i

171
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made a nice you know upward climbing

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good and here you are yes

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yeah

174
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noise you might hear some noise

175
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occasionally we have roofers

176
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oh yeah yeah i heard that

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yeah so they're uh tacking in some

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putting in some shingles yes yes they

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are

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did they tell you that it had they had a

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lifetime guarantee

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no they didn't even tell us they were

183
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coming i just know that

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i spent a lot of time in that world so

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you know

186
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going on the right house

187
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just know that they don't give you it's

188
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not about the material warranty it's

189
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about the labor warranty that's what you

190
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want to get so

191
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okay so enough about roofing warranty

192
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so i sent this case to you

193
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um i think it was last week via email

194
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and it was interesting for me i'll just

195
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kind of preface it a little bit with

196
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this

197
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um because

198
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for anybody who doesn't know uh he does

199
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a lot robert here does a lot of research

200
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into the date march 25th

201
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1948

202
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um

203
00:10:12,710 --> 00:10:11,279
you know in

204
00:10:15,910 --> 00:10:12,720
relation to a lot of different things

205
00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:15,920
but what happened then was a i think it

206
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was emergency air order came out

207
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um

208
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and

209
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so anyways i knew that that was in the

210
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back of my head and i was looking at

211
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cases uh in the archives

212
00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:28,160
and i found

213
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this day march 25th it was just coming

214
00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:34,560
up like for four or five in a row for

215
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cases um

216
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and so that emergency air order was

217
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:42,240
popping up in regards to these ufo cases

218
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so this one that i brought up was really

219
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pretty great

220
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,920
um and i think you agreed so i'm gonna

221
00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:51,519
bring that up here

222
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um

223
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:54,079
as that's the case that kind of made me

224
00:11:01,030 --> 00:10:56,720
send it to you and started this off

225
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to bring you back here on the show

226
00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:06,000
so the location is fort bliss texas

227
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:06,880
date

228
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may 19th 1949

229
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:14,550
you have to say it like you've got

230
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something in your cheeks

231
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:20,000
flat flashing light degrees above the

232
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horizon it moved away at approximately

233
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100 degrees in descending

234
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,360
irregular rolling and tilting

235
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military aircraft reported in the area

236
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at that time

237
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:34,480
but look at all those observers

238
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,120
well that should all be blacked out

239
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:39,279
should it yeah

240
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:46,710
well you know there they are so

241
00:11:50,069 --> 00:11:47,730
it's too late now

242
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:50,079
[Applause]

243
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:52,800
but we have a lot of lieutenants and

244
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privates

245
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:55,279
though well they're all military

246
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:56,639
observers so

247
00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:58,560
as far as i know that that they could be

248
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:02,160
unclassified but is that wrong

249
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:03,680
what's that

250
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:06,720
i thought the military um observers

251
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:09,760
don't have to be blocked out

252
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:12,480
no when they when they made all this

253
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:14,880
public they were at the first level

254
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:16,880
anyway they were responsible to blackout

255
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:19,760
everybody's private information oh

256
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:21,920
so that when it was released it was no

257
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:24,880
longer considered restricted top secret

258
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:26,160
restricted

259
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:27,440
right so if you move everybody's

260
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personal information that kind of stuff

261
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:31,600
it moves it into unclassified and then

262
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:33,519
you can release it

263
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,079
so they just make names it's all no big

264
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:38,160
it happens i've seen it happen yeah

265
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:39,760
you've seen it happen some of the funny

266
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:41,760
places they go to the trouble and then

267
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:43,360
right at the end of the document there's

268
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the person's name

269
00:12:48,860 --> 00:12:47,120
yeah right right right right sometimes

270
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even a couple sentences later

271
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:51,680
[Laughter]

272
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so

273
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:53,279
um

274
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:54,480
what

275
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:56,000
you know you you were the one who

276
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actually said you wanted to start with

277
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:59,279
this case what were you thinking what's

278
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up that main page maybe

279
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scroll back up to the first uh

280
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no okay that'd be the first actual eight

281
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:06,720
by eleven

282
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memo come this this must be it this is

283
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,160
27 may yeah note the first paragraph

284
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:14,240
that must been what caught the search

285
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:16,160
engine when you were looking it up

286
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yeah

287
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:19,839
and this again is like you said this in

288
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the reference you know a

289
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director intelligence general staff

290
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united states army

291
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csgid 452.1

292
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:31,760
that was the file number the army

293
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:33,519
intelligence came up for unconventional

294
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:35,680
aircraft

295
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:38,880
and the other thing this a 1917

296
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:40,959
is a top secret control

297
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,000
like

298
00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:44,560
looking up the

299
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:46,440
the committee on overhead

300
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:49,199
reconnaissance and you know the common

301
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,480
step they always had their uh talent

302
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:54,880
was one one of their control mechanisms

303
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:55,600
right

304
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:57,680
i'm looking up that metric

305
00:14:01,110 --> 00:13:58,720
control

306
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:01,120
that's all the same thing

307
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,760
a 1917 that's what it is and this is a

308
00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:05,279
general staff

309
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:06,399
order

310
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:09,199
for unconventional aircraft

311
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,880
so it's interesting that like you're

312
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,800
noticing i noticed

313
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,560
which is another reason thing that

314
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:16,480
actually bolstered it but even though

315
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:18,880
tons of references to the exact one you

316
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:21,440
know 25 march director

317
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:23,360
there are plenty of other ones the first

318
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:25,199
time i saw it it threw me it was one it

319
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,160
said

320
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:29,040
1 november 1940 but it cited the same

321
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:30,800
document and then i started seeing a

322
00:14:34,030 --> 00:14:32,320
pattern here like i mentioned before

323
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:34,040
over that uh

324
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:35,839
adc-455

325
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:37,760
it depended on who but

326
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,240
most of the time when something big

327
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,639
happened that replaces the one before it

328
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,639
right they'll start with that date now

329
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:46,720
so it's a kind of a way of saying this

330
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,000
is still in

331
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:49,920
under you know a general order blah blah

332
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:52,160
blah is still in effect as you can see

333
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:54,399
on this stage and i've seen it but other

334
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:55,760
times i've seen him reference the

335
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:58,399
original one 25 march

336
00:15:02,230 --> 00:14:59,279
just

337
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,240
a tip for any researchers watching here

338
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:04,959
i believe what it was that i searched

339
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,480
were a couple things i think this csg id

340
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:10,160
i searched

341
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,920
you know so it's searching stuff like

342
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,440
that or a

343
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:15,600
1917

344
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:18,959
or down here akb aab

345
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:21,519
is searching that kind of stuff is what

346
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:24,160
you know gets you into these different

347
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:26,240
you know documents that might may or may

348
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,000
not be important i guess you don't find

349
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:30,000
out until you start looking at them but

350
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,839
those are the things you search rather

351
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:34,240
than you know like city and state or you

352
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,480
know yeah yeah or whatever but the uh

353
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:38,720
this actual directive here that their

354
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:41,120
question that's was authored by

355
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:43,759
colonel riley f ennis

356
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,399
uh he was head of what they call in the

357
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,240
intelligence group

358
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,880
so which that's really important because

359
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,959
as much as i have been able to tell so

360
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,199
far in my own research

361
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:57,920
which is very similar to what you do

362
00:16:01,509 --> 00:16:00,320
but when i was concentrating my efforts

363
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:01,519
here

364
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,279
i've noticed that

365
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:05,279
the general staff

366
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,160
intelligence group is kind of like the

367
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,240
equivalent of being it's the central

368
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:12,079
intelligence group it just never went

369
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,120
away

370
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:16,399
so even though the cia became the cia

371
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,120
the

372
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,199
and you can really see it in a lot of

373
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:21,120
the back and forth between helen cotter

374
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:23,360
and the army after allen carter becomes

375
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,000
dci there's still

376
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:28,639
trouble getting the army to cooperate

377
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,600
with them

378
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:31,519
like there are all these memo after memo

379
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,199
you've probably seen him you know

380
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:35,360
referring to army liaison with you know

381
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:37,759
vlogger why haven't they been sharing

382
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:39,519
the daily intelligence like you know all

383
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:40,880
these things

384
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:42,560
and then hillary's saying you know we

385
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:43,680
need more

386
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,079
sharing that's actually what led up to

387
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:48,399
what i was interested in general bowling

388
00:16:53,749 --> 00:16:51,120
thing with metric because when i first

389
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:53,759
started seeing that metric control

390
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:56,079
that was about the same time trouble was

391
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:58,560
brewing for people like forestall and it

392
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,560
was right about the time when all this

393
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:02,240
stuff supposedly starts leaking about a

394
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,680
flying saucer

395
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:05,439
landing in the desert you know and then

396
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,319
you get

397
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:08,640
uh behind the flying saucers by frank

398
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:09,839
scully

399
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,760
right it all comes right on the heel of

400
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:13,520
all right in that little

401
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:15,760
inverted fulcrum you know that's that

402
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:18,799
date in that late 1949 period from march

403
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:22,319
25th from this directive on the 25th

404
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:24,079
up until that time period where these

405
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,760
stuff started leaking

406
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:27,600
yeah there was it there's a huge case

407
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:29,679
before that too it was maybe a year

408
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,320
before right but uh captain mentel that

409
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,320
was a big deal on the seventh

410
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,160
yeah a month before

411
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:38,559
yeah this is an interesting uh

412
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:41,600
unidentified aerial phenomenon yeah

413
00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:43,039
what year is that

414
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:44,840
may 19

415
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:48,000
1949 so i mean i've just highlighted

416
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,360
that because a lot of people go why are

417
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:51,280
they changing it to this or what you

418
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:52,720
know

419
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:54,880
it's ufo or whatever like they've been

420
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:57,679
saying uab not specifically uap but

421
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,400
unidentified aerial phenomenon

422
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:02,799
that again this is the army

423
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,799
and and notice that could be important

424
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:06,400
with a bunch of the things i'm looking

425
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:08,400
into including this that this is

426
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:11,200
generated because it's an army unit

427
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,799
right so they're using the army

428
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:14,880
directive that came down from the

429
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:17,520
intelligence division and namely colonel

430
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,240
rylianis intelligence group they're the

431
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:22,240
ones that authored gsc

432
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,799
uh csg id 452.1 on 25 march 1948. so

433
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:28,640
this is an army unit and they're using

434
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,400
that as their

435
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:32,240
thing aka you know that thing up there i

436
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:33,919
think that's alaskan air command or

437
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:35,760
something it's an air command

438
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,080
filing agency you know i can't i think

439
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,280
it has to do with uh alaska

440
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,679
but it's still the same filing group

441
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:45,600
452.1

442
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:48,640
yep unconventional aircraft

443
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:51,039
there it is see the author gsc at the

444
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,280
bottom you'll see that in a lot of uh

445
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:54,799
you see if you scrolled up just a teeny

446
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:56,480
bit if that was

447
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,039
right here look see eustis poland he

448
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:01,679
took i think he took anna's place after

449
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:03,120
anna stepped

450
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,320
outside i'm pretty sure it's either

451
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:08,320
eustis poland i think is who it was and

452
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:09,679
notice

453
00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:12,799
assistant chief of staff g2

454
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:15,760
yeah and so his counterpart at hamilton

455
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:17,919
air force base was assistant chief of

456
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:20,640
staff intelligence air 2

457
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:21,679
uh

458
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,640
yeah

459
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:24,880
controlled everything the army

460
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:27,600
and the army air corps stuff

461
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:30,559
blessing the early days of the air force

462
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:33,679
sending this right to right pat

463
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:34,400
well

464
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:36,080
that's what this directive gives them

465
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:37,679
permission to interact with is

466
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:39,919
wright-patterson air force base for the

467
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,520
commanding general too commanding

468
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,360
general that's that's uh commanding

469
00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:45,919
general of ray patterson

470
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:46,900
that's a big deal

471
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:49,919
[Laughter]

472
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:51,919
yeah so then uh was there anything else

473
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:54,400
in here that yeah

474
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,799
uh i just it's a good one you know may

475
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,559
yeah maybe scroll down and show that

476
00:20:01,510 --> 00:20:00,320
they the guy drew a picture of the

477
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,520
object

478
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:03,360
uh from the top and from the side i

479
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:06,720
think your strategic air command

480
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:08,799
interesting see all those the directives

481
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,799
are following are 45 5 and 200-1

482
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:14,720
they're essentially the same as the at

483
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:16,080
the army directive but the army

484
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:19,039
directive started theirs on march 25th

485
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:21,120
1948

486
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,480
and i swear i think that explained that

487
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:26,400
i can't say it does explain it but i

488
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:27,840
really feel strong in this difference

489
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,240
with the army the army general staff and

490
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:32,080
their intelligence group could really

491
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,200
possibly be an answer in partial answer

492
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:37,280
to why some of this other stuff seems so

493
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:39,039
elusive like

494
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:41,840
crash recoveries stuff like that

495
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:43,760
because

496
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,159
it is always the army that's out on the

497
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:48,720
site of or purported crash you know

498
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:51,520
roping it off or whatever even the uh

499
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,120
lani zamora one

500
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:54,960
uh the army was there

501
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:57,440
you know roping it off and everything

502
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,320
when

503
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,080
right after world war ii

504
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:02,640
when hap arnold was turning over control

505
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:05,440
of the the army air force to general

506
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,799
spots

507
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:08,320
that he turned it over to him and like

508
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:09,520
because they knew

509
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:11,120
we're going to make a real air force and

510
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,559
you're going to be the guy that's going

511
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,880
to get it done from you yes sir you know

512
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,799
so smart takes over and that's kind of

513
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:18,720
what he's doing and he's the guy in

514
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:21,520
place when that emergency happens on

515
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:23,360
march 25th

516
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:25,120
but in this army

517
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:27,679
you could see the army uh

518
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:29,200
having separate

519
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:30,960
tentacles in this

520
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:33,200
yeah that at the end of the war when the

521
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:34,960
central intelligence group was created

522
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:37,520
it was an army thing

523
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:38,880
not you know

524
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,000
so

525
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:42,240
as the oss they're thinking what are we

526
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:43,600
going to do with all these spies and

527
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:45,600
these spy networks we created that's all

528
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,200
army

529
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:49,520
and so donovan's oss there they were

530
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:51,520
first going to disband it all

531
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,200
but then they're thinking no we can't

532
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:55,120
disband it after conferring back and

533
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,440
forth with the army people because that

534
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,320
just took years of work to get the army

535
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:02,720
to the level they had all these networks

536
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:04,400
and stuff and they still had all those

537
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:06,559
networks at the end of the war

538
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:09,200
so the central intelligence group

539
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:10,960
became kind of the

540
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,400
thing working with what they called

541
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:14,640
their strategic services unit which was

542
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,880
really the oss but as they were

543
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,640
phasing it out

544
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:20,480
that and i i mentioned hubert i thought

545
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:21,520
that was interesting because then we

546
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,320
have that in interplanetary unit

547
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:26,159
unit that supposedly existed that would

548
00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:27,679
have been about that

549
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:33,039
since they did use the term unit there

550
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:33,919
but

551
00:22:38,830 --> 00:22:36,640
as the oss and that stuff is infusing

552
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:38,840
into the army's

553
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:41,440
cig the

554
00:22:46,110 --> 00:22:43,760
and it's getting closer to it becoming a

555
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:46,120
civilian agency in july

556
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,520
1947 when it's really kicking in that

557
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:52,320
whole period of time especially

558
00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:55,039
you can picture the army

559
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:57,919
clutching to everything with both fists

560
00:23:01,510 --> 00:23:00,000
you know everything they had

561
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:01,520
information

562
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:04,159
spies counter intelligence activities

563
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,799
all

564
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:07,039
they were like grinning

565
00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:09,039
but holding everything like this you

566
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:09,919
know

567
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:17,760
i'm sure director of intelligence we'll

568
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:19,760
send it off but then the next memo will

569
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,640
be

570
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,120
didn't i ask you to send me those

571
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:25,520
letters oh yes that must have been some

572
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:30,870
they went on for a long time the army

573
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,280
did not trust the cia because they had

574
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:35,520
just developed so much and they didn't

575
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:36,880
want to let it go

576
00:23:41,590 --> 00:23:39,600
yeah well i think that's a you know it

577
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:41,600
seems like that's even a problem these

578
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:43,919
days is the intelligence different

579
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:46,320
intelligence agencies trusting each

580
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:48,159
other or wanting to give up the

581
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,799
information that they have

582
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,080
interesting

583
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,480
well in the gsc his

584
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:56,080
predecessor is the war department

585
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:58,320
general staff which prosecuted world war

586
00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:00,320
one and world war ii

587
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:01,520
and so

588
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:04,159
i'm sorry go ahead no that's okay i'm

589
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:07,520
bringing up your documents here

590
00:24:13,149 --> 00:24:09,039
this one's interesting on a couple of

591
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:14,630
www.bluebookarchive.org while it was

592
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,840
still a thing

593
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:17,520
right and

594
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,320
it was funny how even that group a good

595
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:22,320
guy grew for sure because they were

596
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:24,640
housing all these occasions and their

597
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,720
ocr system was great

598
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:28,400
to search through stuff

599
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,320
but when you get the documents i just

600
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:32,640
happened to trip i was searching all

601
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:35,760
over for this and i fear it was in there

602
00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:37,600
but then i realized maybe this was why

603
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:40,159
it took so long this is actually fixed

604
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:41,600
quite a bit by me

605
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:44,080
the the real copy you get this black all

606
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:45,520
over this you could really actually

607
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:49,279
barely read any of it it was all black

608
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,279
it did it on purpose like because i've

609
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:53,120
seen other copies like frank warren's

610
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,520
copies these are great they're all clear

611
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,840
there's no

612
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,440
and y'all see that one up there on the

613
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:01,440
left-hand side

614
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:03,679
but i kept this page because it's it's

615
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:05,039
the page it's one that gives those

616
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:06,960
famous quotes you know

617
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:10,000
and this was done by colonel mccoy out

618
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:12,480
there at right field

619
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:15,200
he's the one behind this information see

620
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,640
that it says

621
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:18,640
you know this as requested by george

622
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:19,679
shuligan

623
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:22,159
head of uh off uh office of intelligence

624
00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:23,919
requirements

625
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:26,000
uh that's why it says as requested by

626
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:27,679
acting chief of staff air intelligence

627
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:29,840
which was he was at the time

628
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:32,159
proposed below the considered opinion by

629
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:33,600
this command blah blah we know this

630
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,880
right but it was by the personnel of t2

631
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,640
aircraft laboratory engineering and that

632
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,480
so that's howard mccoy

633
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:42,559
at right field so he was the one that

634
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,720
gave them the information that george

635
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:46,799
that uh george shuligan put together to

636
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:48,880
get this famous report where it says the

637
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:51,200
philomonum the philomenon reported as

638
00:25:53,780 --> 00:25:52,400
real

639
00:26:00,700 --> 00:25:53,790
the phenomenon

640
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:02,630
[Laughter]

641
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,640
so here we go here's like the second

642
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:06,480
letter

643
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:09,600
i'm gonna try just a different

644
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:11,679
better way to

645
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:13,440
bring this up

646
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,880
just because you know we want people to

647
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:18,720
be able to see it well

648
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:21,120
yeah i think

649
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:23,440
that didn't work

650
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:26,400
okay so i think this might be

651
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:28,640
a little bit better because i can zoom

652
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:32,080
in oh yes oh

653
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:33,200
there we go

654
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,720
cool

655
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:36,240
see now here we have a reference to it

656
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,159
even obviously there's an even other

657
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:40,799
filing systems either handwritten x

658
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:43,279
0 0 0.9

659
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,000
and then signed by the guy j j afer or

660
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:48,640
jaffer that's an obviously other filing

661
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,919
system

662
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:51,679
right then the other one we're looking

663
00:26:58,710 --> 00:26:56,710
there's a lot of that you know i wonder

664
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,720
what's in there who's doctor charles

665
00:27:01,430 --> 00:27:00,080
carroll

666
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:01,440
what's that

667
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:04,320
who's dr charles carroll very famous guy

668
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,880
at the time we could do a little

669
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:08,640
background search and he's got a lot of

670
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,679
information

671
00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:11,440
and he would have been a guy that he

672
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:13,039
would have been the kind of guy you brag

673
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:15,679
about with well dr carroll said you know

674
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:18,559
he was that kind of guy alfred

675
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:20,880
see he's there too what's the

676
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:23,120
significance of this document

677
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,320
okay

678
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:26,640
that again it's mccoy see that signed

679
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:28,240
kernel air corps

680
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:30,559
24 september 1947 the day they were

681
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:32,840
finalizing the air

682
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:36,720
force he's this is part of a

683
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:39,039
a question he keeps trying notice how

684
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:40,640
it's addressed to up at the top

685
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:43,120
lieutenant colonel garrett

686
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:44,880
he's the guy that was putting together

687
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,760
the first estimate of the situation that

688
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:49,840
was what they used to create project

689
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:51,360
sign

690
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,600
colonel mccoy and garrett are both with

691
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:55,200
gsc

692
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:56,960
even though they're air force

693
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:58,640
they're both still with the general

694
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:01,120
staff on their airpath

695
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:02,480
so

696
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,960
they would be lazy that's why their

697
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:06,640
assistant chief of staff air

698
00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:07,919
intelligence that's why that's the

699
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:10,399
liaison because the air staffs lays

700
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:12,320
together

701
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:13,520
so

702
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:17,279
knows how much deviates into that army

703
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:18,320
connection

704
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:19,760
into the air staff that somehow we

705
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,399
should be looking more into including

706
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,159
2.1

707
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:26,480
uh i would think graham might have come

708
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:28,399
across some stuff

709
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:29,200
yeah

710
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:30,559
foo fighters

711
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,720
yeah maybe possibly

712
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:34,559
it seems like they're a harder nut to

713
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,200
crack for whatever reason

714
00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:39,200
well it's no coincidence that other that

715
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,399
control

716
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:43,440
capital a dash 1917 the air staff was

717
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:45,600
created in 1917

718
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:47,520
so that makes sense they used that for

719
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:48,880
their control

720
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:50,960
mechanism

721
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:51,840
so

722
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:54,159
the air force didn't have that same type

723
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:56,240
of control mechanism in their

724
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:57,440
reporting

725
00:29:01,990 --> 00:28:59,600
notice oh the army did when the general

726
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:02,000
staff got involved

727
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:05,039
has to be in the file 452.1

728
00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:08,159
with control a 1917

729
00:29:12,149 --> 00:29:10,000
attached to it so that it gets

730
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,159
controlled by the

731
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:14,559
i guess that would be top secret

732
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:17,840
control officer that was handling a 1917

733
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:19,760
for the army general staff

734
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:21,840
yeah so information is really just all

735
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:24,320
over the place because i'll tell you

736
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:25,919
you know there's there's one thing by

737
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,320
the air force that that i've come across

738
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,039
it says they've had over 11 000 some

739
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,760
sightings or whatever um

740
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:35,840
in a span of a certain amount of years

741
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,360
and you look at the archives and there's

742
00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:38,960
only

743
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:39,840
seven 10

744
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:46,070
you know

745
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,630
i don't know i know it didn't happen

746
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:54,240
that's why this kind of thing is i think

747
00:29:57,430 --> 00:29:55,919
right here so this letter here that's

748
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:57,440
this is why this is important it's

749
00:30:01,110 --> 00:29:59,840
direction attention director research

750
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:01,120
and development

751
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:03,360
remember later in 1960 those letters

752
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:04,320
like

753
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:06,080
were they're trying to dump it off on

754
00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:08,080
somebody supposingly in their research

755
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:09,520
and development they're

756
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:11,360
no no we can't take down them but well

757
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:13,440
the research development had always been

758
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,399
in

759
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:16,559
children it's weird anyway

760
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,799
craig is director research and

761
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,000
development

762
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:22,399
command for structure right and so

763
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,600
that's who

764
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:25,679
now mcstill mccoy

765
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:28,159
is writing to and he even in this number

766
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:30,000
one see confirming the recent

767
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:31,440
conversation

768
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:33,919
of the undersigned mccoy with general

769
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:36,640
craig so on 9 december he had a meeting

770
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:37,520
with

771
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:38,240
the

772
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:39,840
general craigie

773
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:42,000
so the meeting was about these questions

774
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,960
he has

775
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,120
like that one of he mentioned in the the

776
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:47,520
previous one we quoted now notice when

777
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:48,880
it says in two

778
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:51,279
comments of headquarters air force on

779
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,840
these three letters have never been

780
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,320
received by this command

781
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,640
continued and recent reports from

782
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,320
qualified observers concerning this

783
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,480
phenomenon still makes this matter one

784
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,480
of concern to headquarters airman's

785
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,880
hearing command intelligence division uh

786
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,799
department of this command is continuing

787
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:11,279
the collection and analysis of so you

788
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,480
know i mean for

789
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:14,399
he's talking pretty big for like some

790
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,880
just regular colonel out there and

791
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,399
you know well

792
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,159
even though i haven't heard from you we

793
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,799
plan on continuing our program and he

794
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:24,480
seems to know something

795
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:26,559
that means it's a big deal i don't know

796
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,080
why you guys aren't making a big deal

797
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:30,080
with this you haven't even answered my

798
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:31,200
letters

799
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:33,440
signed colonel mccoy

800
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:36,480
yeah interesting because

801
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:37,760
well

802
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,240
usaf you think would be making maybe a

803
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,240
bigger deal of it because it was like

804
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:44,320
the radar stuff that was

805
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:46,240
really freaking them out like uh and

806
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:48,640
people being able to tell if there's a

807
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,960
saucer on the radar or if it's a plane

808
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:52,080
or

809
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:55,120
what it is and how would they react

810
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,960
if it i mean if that's correct i believe

811
00:32:00,750 --> 00:31:58,080
it is but

812
00:32:02,549 --> 00:32:00,760
and these are the 47 radar sightings

813
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,559
1947's

814
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,559
yeah whatever level you know the same

815
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,559
leftover world war ii

816
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:08,399
stuff they're using or wait did they

817
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:11,360
have radar sightings then in 47 oh yeah

818
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:13,600
these were all 47

819
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,360
we had our radar they just weren't that

820
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:17,600
great for yeah they weren't they really

821
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:20,159
weren't great for what we needed because

822
00:32:23,669 --> 00:32:22,000
bombers could come in at low altitude

823
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:23,679
and the stuff we had would like totally

824
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:27,830
one of the things we were feverishly

825
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,840
trying to throw together low-level

826
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:31,600
altitude

827
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,320
over-the-horizon type you know

828
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:36,480
radar stuff to so in case a bomber group

829
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:37,279
was

830
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:38,880
coming over the horizon you'd kind of

831
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:40,960
know it you know it's interesting hey

832
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,559
amc opinion

833
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,200
concerning flying discs that's what we

834
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:47,360
read that first one that's almost all

835
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:48,799
blacked out

836
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:51,760
the twining memorandum that's that one

837
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:53,200
and that was one of the letters he

838
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:55,279
included see he included all three of

839
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:56,799
these big time letters he had sent

840
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:57,919
already

841
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:00,159
and they were included with this here

842
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:02,000
included find these three letters you

843
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,240
know to remind you that i've asked you

844
00:33:08,830 --> 00:33:06,080
before about the subject and you just

845
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:08,840
keep ignoring me

846
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:11,039
why uh did i

847
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:13,679
remember to send i think i redid

848
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:17,600
something as a jpeg that was page two of

849
00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:21,360
what i pulled out of one of the pdfs on

850
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:22,640
on the

851
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:25,760
our research development board rdb

852
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:28,399
if that was possible uh

853
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:30,320
we could figure that out i didn't

854
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,519
because i remember when i spoke to uh

855
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:35,919
to uh spaghetti he couldn't pick up a

856
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:39,440
pdf file you know okay so i remember

857
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:41,039
pulling something out of one and making

858
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:43,200
it a jpeg

859
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:44,480
i have not

860
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:49,440
it's page two of the one that's rdb bush

861
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:51,200
pro possible problems or something like

862
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,230
could be

863
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:01,190
is it

864
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:03,200
uh see it's hard for me to tell which is

865
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:04,720
which i guess

866
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:07,519
i mean i see the basic sheet that listed

867
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,470
um 1950 iac meeting bush problems yeah

868
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:16,000
okay

869
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:18,320
i think that's one

870
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:19,599
okay

871
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:22,240
sorry is it a minute is it minutes of

872
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:25,280
ise meeting okay gotcha no uh

873
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,760
no no it would not be it's uh

874
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:29,520
forrest still might be in the title is

875
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:30,879
he for

876
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,240
no

877
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:34,800
i've already caused a hiccup

878
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:39,430
maybe or maybe i just screwed something

879
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,280
up

880
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:43,679
uh rdb craigie

881
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:45,440
should be the ending of it

882
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:49,679
okay that helps let me check yeah rdb

883
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:51,679
craigie

884
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:57,990
craig you are the next contestant

885
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,480
on the price is right okay yeah i don't

886
00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:02,400
have that one

887
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:03,440
right then

888
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,160
well

889
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:06,000
if you sent it to me email i could

890
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:07,920
always uh check it out right now and

891
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:09,680
make sure

892
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,320
if you think he sent it

893
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,880
that's not a problem at all

894
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:16,800
yeah

895
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:23,040
you you talk about it maybe i'll find it

896
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:23,920
who knows

897
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:26,160
i mean i did it's on page two of one of

898
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,920
those uh

899
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:30,000
pdf sites that are in that group i sent

900
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:32,480
you but all the reason it's important

901
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:34,400
and this is because

902
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:37,200
i as something i recently ran across and

903
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:40,079
it provided on page two it's handwritten

904
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,040
notes by forrestal of who's in the

905
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:45,359
research and development board

906
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:47,839
who's there who's the leader who's the

907
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:50,800
other people involved so vanivar bush is

908
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:51,760
the head

909
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:56,000
research development board

910
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:58,560
one of the next two down

911
00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:00,480
was lieutenant general

912
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:01,920
craigie

913
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:04,880
okay this is the guy in the command that

914
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:08,000
mccoy can't seem to get him to answer

915
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:10,240
what's going on

916
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,480
in the ufo you know what are we doing

917
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:15,040
here and he keeps having asking him

918
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:17,280
over and over again even through

919
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:19,680
late december 47 he finally gets an

920
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:20,960
answer and

921
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:24,480
i think from george shilling's office

922
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,119
so what was that and so

923
00:36:31,390 --> 00:36:29,359
craigie just happens to be on the

924
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:31,400
research and development board

925
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,760
[Laughter]

926
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:35,680
and everybody including you've seen the

927
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:37,200
sarbacher memo

928
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:40,960
where he went to wilbert smith that the

929
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:43,520
leader was vanibar bush and they were

930
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:45,440
head of a saucer group

931
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,520
yeah that's the research and development

932
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:50,400
board most assuredly

933
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:53,280
well what the heck

934
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:55,040
yeah i can't find it for whatever reason

935
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:56,880
i got a pdf from you but that's not

936
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:58,480
attached to it

937
00:37:02,790 --> 00:37:00,000
well blimey

938
00:37:04,610 --> 00:37:02,800
so i'll send you these things

939
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:04,620
you did man

940
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:07,280
[Laughter]

941
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:10,560
so research and development was like uh

942
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:12,400
definitely one of their

943
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:14,079
[Music]

944
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:16,160
uh

945
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:18,400
you know big deals with research in this

946
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:19,760
phenomenon

947
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:22,800
wasn't it oh yeah from there i mean

948
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:24,560
i wanted to use it for weapons basically

949
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:26,400
right

950
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:27,280
you know

951
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:29,520
it looks like definitely sometimes

952
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:31,359
through the articles of the art air

953
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:34,000
defense motif you know here again

954
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:36,720
another struggle between the army and

955
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:40,000
the air force is the air defense

956
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,520
was an army thing

957
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:43,839
so again just like the other stuff at

958
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:45,520
the beginning as they were working out

959
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,960
air defense stuff

960
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:48,960
the army was the ones that were doing

961
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,040
everything again i think that's

962
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:53,440
definitely why we see in the files

963
00:37:58,790 --> 00:37:56,400
assistant chief of staff intelligence

964
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:58,800
army ground intelligence g2 and

965
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:01,520
assistant chief of staff intelligence

966
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:04,079
air force etude you'll always see those

967
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:05,119
two

968
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:07,520
in connection to the real serious files

969
00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:09,200
and he had marshall chad well in there

970
00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:12,160
with the cia and they were trying to do

971
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:13,760
their research and development and all

972
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,000
that stuff so you got like three

973
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:18,960
different branches of intelligence

974
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:26,150
like doing things with this helen cutter

975
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:27,440
some of might would have been going on

976
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:28,880
there i think hill and cutter at the

977
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,599
beginning was being kind of kept out by

978
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:33,920
the army because they're the ones

979
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:35,760
bellyaching the most about the army not

980
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:37,119
sharing with them

981
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:38,480
right so

982
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:40,720
if the army was keeping a lot of them

983
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:44,560
you could see of if in the 49ish period

984
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:47,440
hill and goddard started figuring it out

985
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:50,079
it being maybe like crash like

986
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:52,000
aztec you know and they're the army's

987
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:53,520
been keeping it under wraps and they're

988
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:54,320
kind of

989
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,240
you know i did get i don't know if i

990
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:58,640
mentioned this last time but i wish i

991
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:01,119
i know i kept it on the hard drive so i

992
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,560
can prove that i really got it from a

993
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:04,640
web page but back in the day way back in

994
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:05,599
the day

995
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,320
the air force on its regular

996
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:10,800
page about itself it did have these two

997
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:13,520
pages on colonel harold watson that were

998
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:15,440
no place else and i remember grabbing

999
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,480
them because they were talking about how

1000
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:20,640
sometime in 47

1001
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:23,040
the air force namely colonel harold

1002
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:25,520
watson same one we know about in the ufo

1003
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:29,520
field yeah he was using the first

1004
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:32,240
equipment they had available to use uh

1005
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,680
as a

1006
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:35,119
uh

1007
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:37,280
eavesdropping on whatever the army was

1008
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:40,720
doing out at white sands missile range

1009
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:43,040
why would the air force need to be they

1010
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:46,079
were using signals intelligence stuff

1011
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:47,119
in a

1012
00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:48,240
place of their and they were

1013
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:50,320
eavesdropping on the army

1014
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:52,560
whatever the army was doing out there

1015
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:53,839
when was that

1016
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:56,800
it was like late 47 or right around the

1017
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:59,359
same time period 47 48

1018
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:01,280
in this window that i'm where they're

1019
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:02,320
still

1020
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,880
struggling with sharing information with

1021
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,920
their

1022
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:07,440
fellows

1023
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:09,599
there you go there's the first date 455

1024
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:11,440
is updated from what i can tell from

1025
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,319
sixth february okay

1026
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:16,560
and there is some stuff

1027
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:18,240
i sent it to you but again i didn't i

1028
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:19,599
don't want to be held like oh no now

1029
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:21,760
this file now this file you know oh yeah

1030
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:24,560
we can do that uh

1031
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,520
smoking object and that coincidentally

1032
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:29,680
was published on the same date 26

1033
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,880
february

1034
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,720
there's a couple other fightings i found

1035
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,079
same date

1036
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,720
26 february and 25 february so obviously

1037
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:38,640
stuff was going on

1038
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:39,839
that they were

1039
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:41,440
working on and every time something

1040
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:43,280
happened the date would take on that new

1041
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:44,319
date

1042
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:46,079
like i said that's this one's 26

1043
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:47,119
february

1044
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:49,119
and then one november i saw one with

1045
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,040
nova and yep there's a

1046
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:53,040
there's a bomber crew that sites the

1047
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:54,000
disc

1048
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:56,480
on one november 1948 and that's the new

1049
00:41:01,349 --> 00:41:00,480
date for you know the gs csg id uh

1050
00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:01,359
letter

1051
00:41:05,910 --> 00:41:04,240
but 45 5 and 200-1 even though it

1052
00:41:07,589 --> 00:41:05,920
doesn't say that anywhere this is pretty

1053
00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:07,599
much exactly

1054
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:09,440
those directives

1055
00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:11,200
so you see later and even says here you

1056
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:12,640
know in compliance with paragraph 3

1057
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:15,359
regulation number 45 5

1058
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:18,079
headquarters strategic air command

1059
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,680
and so this is pretty much 45.5 and 201

1060
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:23,520
both this is how

1061
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:25,599
except instead of smoking object they

1062
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:29,119
would say maybe 350-09 a smoking object

1063
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:30,480
category

1064
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:35,040
see out there air air intelligence 350

1065
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:37,200
instead of 452.1

1066
00:41:41,670 --> 00:41:39,520
and this is a smoking object so that's

1067
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:41,680
probably the smoking object file i hope

1068
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,300
somebody's in trouble

1069
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,680
[Laughter]

1070
00:41:55,090 --> 00:41:53,839
it's an unclassified document it's not

1071
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:55,100
our fault

1072
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,480
[Laughter]

1073
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:58,560
so uh

1074
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,640
weird smoking objects were being seen

1075
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:02,560
about this time right up until right

1076
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:06,079
before the march 25th incident

1077
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:07,599
uh one in

1078
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,560
in

1079
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:11,040
bakersfield california where

1080
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:12,400
people saw

1081
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,040
thick brown smoke behind a slow moving

1082
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,760
object that just stopped all of a sudden

1083
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:19,440
and then what they thought might have

1084
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,359
been a parachute was

1085
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:23,839
sailing off into the distance

1086
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:25,760
because there was uh definitely a

1087
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:29,280
smoking object in uh like newfoundland

1088
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,960
too around then

1089
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:32,960
there are i think a few yeah

1090
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,960
yeah and there's a picture with that

1091
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:36,720
that i have which is pretty interesting

1092
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:38,800
you see a huge trail of smoke coming

1093
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:40,560
from the sky

1094
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:43,200
so if i was a regular old ic guy

1095
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,400
or gal and

1096
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:46,480
i'm seeing things called smoking object

1097
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:48,640
you know you can see how still in their

1098
00:42:52,390 --> 00:42:50,800
brain they're still thinking

1099
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:52,400
you know enemy

1100
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:54,079
activity with the

1101
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:55,200
the uh

1102
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:57,520
the russians are behind it all

1103
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:58,480
yeah

1104
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:01,200
that that would have been so hard to not

1105
00:43:05,109 --> 00:43:03,119
jump to i mean we've seen those other

1106
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:05,119
well they even see things like you know

1107
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:06,960
the the uh

1108
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:09,599
the exciting or you know

1109
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,839
wonderful is pretty much ignored you

1110
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:13,440
know as an explanation i can't remember

1111
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:16,160
the the terminology but it was obvious

1112
00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:17,599
what they were saying you know don't

1113
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:19,119
even ask me if i think it's

1114
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:21,440
extraterrestrial we're not even going to

1115
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:24,000
talk about that or we don't do that

1116
00:43:26,740 --> 00:43:26,000
ma'am i don't think we have a sense of

1117
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:26,750
humor

1118
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:29,839
[Laughter]

1119
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:31,839
so yeah here we go just i like this one

1120
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:34,400
here because this is pretty much 45 5

1121
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:36,400
and 200-1

1122
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:37,760
which mimic

1123
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:41,359
the predecessors to 452.1

1124
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:44,079
a 1917 by the army gender staff that

1125
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:46,720
march 25th morning

1126
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:49,119
huge multi-colored ball of fire and a

1127
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:50,560
dense cloud

1128
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:54,160
made of smoke followed

1129
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:55,680
kind of like that thing that guy sent

1130
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:59,359
the k-42d that video is

1131
00:44:03,109 --> 00:44:01,440
yeah yeah that's true

1132
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:03,119
that was an interesting video that's for

1133
00:44:06,069 --> 00:44:05,040
sure

1134
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:06,079
hello

1135
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:06,839
oh

1136
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:09,200
shoot is that all right

1137
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,109
yeah i had to hang up on him oh okay

1138
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:18,790
all right so which one do you want next

1139
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:20,160
here

1140
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:21,520
uh

1141
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:24,720
by golly almost any of them are good

1142
00:44:30,020 --> 00:44:27,680
okay anything that's easy to read i've

1143
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:30,030
tried to make them all easy to read too

1144
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:36,069
we got a research and development

1145
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:37,280
director for collection and

1146
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:38,800
dissemination

1147
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:41,440
we've got a general ball

1148
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:44,319
yeah uh uh hold that one up

1149
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:49,430
um well

1150
00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:51,520
you know it depends on how good you are

1151
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:53,920
reading and

1152
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:57,440
vision vision is a thing

1153
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:58,560
you know

1154
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,040
people can see

1155
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:03,440
is largely up to them

1156
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:06,960
and i've been told i need glasses anyway

1157
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:09,599
uh probably not you oh this one is

1158
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:11,839
interesting on many levels

1159
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:14,880
i'm glad you tripped over this one

1160
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:17,440
look at the date if you can it's hidden

1161
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:19,520
in that big stamp

1162
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:23,200
12 january 1950

1163
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,359
this is issued

1164
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,599
by the air force office of intelligence

1165
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:29,359
requirements that's who we were just

1166
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,119
talking about the

1167
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:33,040
intelligence requirements

1168
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:34,880
they're the ones that started this whole

1169
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,200
thing and now they're liaising with the

1170
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:39,359
army and their unconventional aircraft

1171
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:40,960
stuff but

1172
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:43,040
january 6 if you might recall that was

1173
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:45,200
the day that wyandotte echo article got

1174
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,400
published in the kansas city i mean the

1175
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:50,880
kensington or the wyandotte echo

1176
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:54,800
6th january 1954 yeah in 1950

1177
00:45:59,829 --> 00:45:57,440
a week later this is done

1178
00:46:02,069 --> 00:45:59,839
all of these directives

1179
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,079
interesting isn't it send and you read

1180
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:04,560
each one and they're like the level of

1181
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:06,960
importance of like uh 455 tournament

1182
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,200
dash one although they're not listed so

1183
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:11,200
obviously those are continuing

1184
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:12,720
but all these other ones like there's a

1185
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:14,960
really interesting if you scroll down

1186
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:16,000
somebody

1187
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:17,680
when they were putting this in the files

1188
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:19,839
originally drew that arrow there

1189
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:21,119
pointing to

1190
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,839
air intelligence requirements division

1191
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:25,839
subject reporting

1192
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:29,119
uh memorandum number four

1193
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:31,760
unconventional aircraft 15 february 1949

1194
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:32,480
so

1195
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:34,560
i wonder what happened on 15 february

1196
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,640
1949 it's a date to look up for sure

1197
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:40,079
you don't know

1198
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:42,160
no these see and that's what i'm finding

1199
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,119
out

1200
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:45,520
would be worth willing look how

1201
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:47,760
the 26th february is the ones up here

1202
00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:49,359
and then when it gets to the general

1203
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:50,560
staff

1204
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,359
they're a day late 27 february 1948 so

1205
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:54,960
it was going the other way too if it was

1206
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:57,839
air force the army got their stuff late

1207
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:00,319
but so did the navy and the calm down of

1208
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:03,280
the uh coast guard got his later even he

1209
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,240
didn't get his until 15 march 1948. it

1210
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,880
may i say that this is a wonderful

1211
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:10,640
looking arrow

1212
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:12,319
yeah interesting how they drew attention

1213
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:14,319
to that air children's requirements

1214
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:17,599
member on them see intelligence

1215
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:19,040
that's who you ever

1216
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,559
when you're looking at these documents

1217
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:22,079
and you see stuff like that do you ever

1218
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:24,400
think like um

1219
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:27,359
uh like whoever did that it was trying

1220
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:29,119
to give a clue to somebody if they ever

1221
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:30,960
look at it one day

1222
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:33,440
absolutely i've seen a lot of that stuff

1223
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:34,960
as i've gone through these over the

1224
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,079
years

1225
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,480
you know a famous one it's controversial

1226
00:47:42,790 --> 00:47:40,000
but you know uh

1227
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:42,800
when a colonel uh

1228
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:45,359
at the uh um at the air ate the air

1229
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:47,839
force when he's uh kneeling

1230
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:50,800
with the memo in his hand at the roswell

1231
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:52,640
right when they've got the debris in

1232
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:54,160
front of the balloon stuff and he's got

1233
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,520
the memorandum

1234
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,599
to this day you know it's controversial

1235
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,520
oh he wouldn't have held a top secret

1236
00:48:02,230 --> 00:48:01,280
memorandum in his hand

1237
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,240
but

1238
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:03,839
that was one of the other things about

1239
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:06,400
you know remember scully said even

1240
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:07,839
though people keep trying to find who

1241
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:09,040
gen you know

1242
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,800
this ghee guy is and everything and he

1243
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:12,720
but he says in his book

1244
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:15,280
i shared some of that with you he goes

1245
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,640
he's right in there and said they were

1246
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:18,800
it's up to eight different scientists

1247
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,680
and

1248
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,599
specialists that came together to talk

1249
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:23,119
to me

1250
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:25,280
okay this is the other one there this is

1251
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:27,119
the meeting and

1252
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:29,359
i admit it seems like it's mainly just

1253
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:30,400
me that

1254
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:32,559
but at the beginning part up until that

1255
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,040
second if we read that beginning part

1256
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:37,440
it towards the end it seems to move into

1257
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,040
the direction of

1258
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:41,520
uh arming i mean how to get enough

1259
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:42,640
bodies

1260
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:44,480
to get over to korea kind of thing there

1261
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:45,520
have been

1262
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:47,599
but two interesting things that no

1263
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:49,839
matter what the subject is

1264
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:52,800
they're in a top-secret control room

1265
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:55,440
in a having an ultra-secret meeting and

1266
00:49:00,470 --> 00:48:58,240
yet you can read when you read this

1267
00:49:01,349 --> 00:49:00,480
it is not like they're thinking that at

1268
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:01,359
all

1269
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:07,119
yeah you talk about stuff

1270
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:09,920
yeah interesting isn't it it is and the

1271
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,280
fact that this name here workout

1272
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:15,440
bush fits perfectly in there and you can

1273
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:17,760
tell it is a capital b that one right

1274
00:49:22,150 --> 00:49:20,400
next to income with the dash

1275
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:22,160
that blacked out area that is almost

1276
00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:24,160
certainly bush

1277
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:28,829
in the

1278
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:32,400
mid and you can see the top tip from the

1279
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:34,319
bottom of the top of the b and then the

1280
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:35,680
next letter

1281
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:36,800
u

1282
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:45,359
holding something hostage from these

1283
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:47,520
guys this is the intelligence advisory

1284
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:48,640
committee

1285
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:50,480
and the subject is like you know how are

1286
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:52,400
we going to get bush

1287
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:53,680
to share this

1288
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:56,480
stuff with us and that's van hoover bush

1289
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:57,680
right

1290
00:50:00,870 --> 00:50:00,079
what's that is that van hoover is is

1291
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:00,880
first

1292
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:04,160
of our bush vanvar okay

1293
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:13,270
mj12 right or whatever yeah military

1294
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:19,349
that's the only thing that i know of

1295
00:50:23,910 --> 00:50:21,119
that stands for the mj if you've ever

1296
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:23,920
seen mj it's on majestic grid

1297
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:27,520
that's what they say but military is mj

1298
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:29,760
that's interesting yeah i've i've seen

1299
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,119
mj

1300
00:50:34,870 --> 00:50:33,440
hey what is zi i wanted to ask you that

1301
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:34,880
i saw it on the last

1302
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:37,280
interior united states

1303
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:38,240
gotcha

1304
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:39,760
and it's important too in some of this

1305
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:42,640
because uh you see that struggle army

1306
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:45,440
cig and as it's becoming civilian

1307
00:50:49,349 --> 00:50:47,440
takes a long time for them to let go of

1308
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:49,359
the tentacles that they've developed

1309
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:50,559
army you know

1310
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:51,680
and

1311
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:54,880
would it would have been that same thing

1312
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,200
of an army the army guys probably

1313
00:51:02,150 --> 00:50:59,599
retained control over this board at the

1314
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:04,069
interesting because then you were yeah

1315
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,000
like you said there's got to be a whole

1316
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:09,200
lot we're missing then

1317
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:11,200
yeah even look how it's listed here as

1318
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,119
the jrdb slash

1319
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,000
cig it's like one thing

1320
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:18,400
right so that's this deep and embedded

1321
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:20,240
into our intelligence functions and you

1322
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,599
could have gotten it at that time yeah

1323
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:25,200
so whatever they were working on at the

1324
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,119
beginning especially they wouldn't be

1325
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:29,280
sharing it with anybody you know what

1326
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:32,880
was interesting to me about

1327
00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:36,480
roswell and aztec really too it's that

1328
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:38,960
these cases

1329
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:40,079
you know

1330
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,559
at least um

1331
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:44,240
roswell because it was known at the time

1332
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:46,400
versus aztec were you know it was kind

1333
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:48,800
of came up later i think right after the

1334
00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:50,559
date but

1335
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:53,839
why would there not be a report

1336
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:55,760
on it in

1337
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,960
in just that huge archives you know like

1338
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:00,640
why

1339
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,040
even if it's a balloon like they say

1340
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,200
it's a balloon they have so many reports

1341
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,200
in there that they call balloons and

1342
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,200
meteorites and everything else so why

1343
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:11,920
would that not be one

1344
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:14,480
you know why would they not even take

1345
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:16,800
certain information out of it but still

1346
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:18,640
have a basic

1347
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:20,480
uh air intelligence technical

1348
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:22,480
intelligence center report on it you

1349
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:23,359
know

1350
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:25,760
they did on other crash investigations

1351
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:28,240
they're in the files you know

1352
00:52:32,230 --> 00:52:30,000
many of them didn't turn up anything but

1353
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:32,240
right

1354
00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:33,920
well that could be the key they didn't

1355
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,319
turn up anything right we're looking but

1356
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:38,319
it didn't turn up anything that's why i

1357
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:39,839
think this might be important here at

1358
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:42,000
the beginning the cig

1359
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:44,079
jrdb connection

1360
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:45,520
it's all army

1361
00:52:49,349 --> 00:52:46,960
and the army

1362
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:49,359
could very well have it's very possible

1363
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:51,760
they controlled all of it

1364
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:53,359
i mean that is what we heard about the

1365
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:55,040
interplanetary phenomenon you know they

1366
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:57,520
were an army unit so again how it even

1367
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,280
makes sense it fits in with the little

1368
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,520
puzzle and the things that developed

1369
00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:03,119
into what we know of as the air

1370
00:53:08,870 --> 00:53:06,079
intelligence services squadrons you know

1371
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:08,880
you've seen a couple of the 1006th

1372
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:11,839
the 11th 27th field activities group all

1373
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:14,480
these there are so many incarnations of

1374
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,079
that and it all kind of starts at that

1375
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,559
same time from these oss

1376
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:20,800
units coming into the cig

1377
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:23,040
interesting they develop these battle

1378
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,069
i think this is the one where if you go

1379
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,400
to page two see here's here's halen

1380
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:32,160
cotter

1381
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:35,440
oh maybe it's page three

1382
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:36,960
just checking if it's not we could just

1383
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,200
go see that's english

1384
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:41,520
he's uh delineating what he thinks his

1385
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:44,160
responsibilities should be

1386
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:45,359
in this

1387
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:46,880
this is all at the beginning right

1388
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:49,839
before forestall starts losing his mind

1389
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,920
that's another thing that's bizarre

1390
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:53,760
all of this stuff this is right at the

1391
00:53:57,750 --> 00:53:55,359
beginning

1392
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,760
right when secretary forceful starts

1393
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:59,280
losing it and then he ends up in the

1394
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:00,640
hospital

1395
00:54:05,030 --> 00:54:03,359
okay with inve involutional melancholia

1396
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,040
it all begins

1397
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:07,359
when with kind of when we think of as

1398
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:08,960
the stuff started leaking out became

1399
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:11,440
aztec you know and later you know

1400
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,280
supposedly roswell too maybe because

1401
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:15,520
they bleed together but

1402
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:18,480
it was really in 1949 when stuff really

1403
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,119
started leaking out for some reason

1404
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:23,760
and even that makes sense if it happened

1405
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,599
in 48

1406
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:27,760
and then a pre thing like roswell like a

1407
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,079
precursor a debris field that this got

1408
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:32,640
them scratching their heads and then the

1409
00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:34,960
something actually lands

1410
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:38,640
and they the army controls that and then

1411
00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:40,319
that's happening at the same time

1412
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:43,760
finally after that not before but after

1413
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:45,680
that's all over is when the army starts

1414
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:47,839
slowly turning over

1415
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:49,359
things to the up to that point they're

1416
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:51,359
not they're fighting to the nail to turn

1417
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:54,559
anything over to the ci cia

1418
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:56,880
it's incredible

1419
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:57,839
it goes

1420
00:55:01,270 --> 00:54:59,760
copen

1421
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:01,280
what'd you say covet

1422
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:08,470
uh

1423
00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:11,680
those are some pretty good docs there

1424
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:13,839
that you shared with us i didn't share

1425
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:16,720
that beginning you can see how mccoy see

1426
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:19,440
mccoy was as deep as you could go

1427
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:20,400
yeah

1428
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:23,040
and he's in charge with colonel garrett

1429
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:24,720
to get this starting you know and

1430
00:55:29,589 --> 00:55:27,280
they've already known me so these guys

1431
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:29,599
are serious business they already know

1432
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,359
something serious is behind this

1433
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:33,680
whatever that is in quotes

1434
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:35,599
something about this subject to him was

1435
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:39,040
very serious and to his immediate and he

1436
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:41,359
kept having to ask the people higher up

1437
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:43,040
in this case having lieutenant general

1438
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:44,480
craigie

1439
00:55:48,870 --> 00:55:47,119
why aren't you responding to my

1440
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:48,880
these were classified letters you know

1441
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:50,160
they were going directly to their

1442
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:51,599
offices you know

1443
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:54,240
why was he given the silent treatment

1444
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:55,760
you know he had to go back and actually

1445
00:55:59,430 --> 00:55:57,359
ask them why

1446
00:56:00,829 --> 00:55:59,440
why aren't you answering me i find that

1447
00:56:02,470 --> 00:56:00,839
fascinating

1448
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,480
yeah

1449
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,480
was on the board on the research and

1450
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:06,160
development board so i mean it doesn't

1451
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,680
prove anything but

1452
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:09,839
if well if there's nothing to it or if

1453
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:12,319
it was just normal whatever

1454
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:15,040
you know they'd have no

1455
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:17,599
you know qualms to responding or

1456
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:19,280
communicating about it

1457
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:22,000
yeah and let's not forget mccoy

1458
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:24,000
the guy uh letting

1459
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:25,599
all these early people they were the

1460
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,599
ones that were in when we hear about

1461
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:29,440
that first estimate the situation we

1462
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:31,040
always get told got f you know

1463
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:32,640
vandenberg said no i don't want that

1464
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:35,599
because it said they were e.t

1465
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,040
interplanetary

1466
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:39,359
that is actually the second

1467
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:40,640
estimate of the situation if you count

1468
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:43,599
that shuligan you know reference that

1469
00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:45,200
garrett put together

1470
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,640
but there was always this other we've

1471
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,400
heard from even reputable people i think

1472
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:50,240
even repel said yeah there was an

1473
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:51,200
estimate

1474
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:53,920
of the situation and it was trashed and

1475
00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:55,839
and that all happened that's when they

1476
00:57:00,630 --> 00:56:58,799
started crumbling sign and reformulating

1477
00:57:01,829 --> 00:57:00,640
and what ended up becoming project

1478
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:01,839
grudge

1479
00:57:05,109 --> 00:57:03,200
right because

1480
00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,119
they were cleaning house like okay you

1481
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:07,119
guys are out of here

1482
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:09,520
mccoy included you know you guys are all

1483
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:12,000
but mccoy was there from the beginning i

1484
00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:12,880
think

1485
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:15,200
randell con confirmed mccoy was with

1486
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,240
griggs

1487
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:18,480
right and they were the foo fighter

1488
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:19,760
stuff in there

1489
00:57:25,589 --> 00:57:22,240
some investigations

1490
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:25,599
thank you megan t for the 699 super chat

1491
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:28,160
she's got a question for you

1492
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,240
uh on to important stuff how are

1493
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:32,480
robert's for his friends did they make

1494
00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:35,359
him a new year's eve ball dress did a

1495
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:37,520
pumpkin carriage pick him up

1496
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:41,119
and did he lose a shoe thank you megan

1497
00:57:46,069 --> 00:57:44,240
no this year a bigfoot congratulations

1498
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:46,079
he hauled me into the forest that's all

1499
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:47,200
i remember

1500
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:48,960
really yeah

1501
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:50,799
wow very sore

1502
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:52,000
afterwards

1503
00:57:56,069 --> 00:57:53,760
oh that's why you're sorry you told me

1504
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:56,079
it had like a operation

1505
00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:58,319
that i was in the hospital yeah yeah oh

1506
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:01,839
my god who's gonna believe me that the

1507
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:04,880
animals conspired against me again

1508
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,559
no they're doing pretty good i have no

1509
00:58:10,150 --> 00:58:08,400
reason not to believe you

1510
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,160
the uh i told you it would have been my

1511
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:12,559
friend a week ago

1512
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:14,160
you know i know that's always the risk i

1513
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:15,680
don't want to get too attached to these

1514
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:17,520
wild animals you know

1515
00:58:28,549 --> 00:58:19,359
so because they're always getting run

1516
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:30,950
sometimes you'll see a cat in the like

1517
00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:33,040
i've actually lately i've seen a lot of

1518
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:35,359
uh cats like running

1519
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:37,359
through the road it's like what are you

1520
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:40,799
doing what you know who's your owner

1521
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:43,440
and why did they let you out in suburbia

1522
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,040
those kind of people we always jungle

1523
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:47,520
out here we keep our cat indoors but

1524
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:49,599
not after our last cat our last cat got

1525
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:51,200
poisoned somehow

1526
00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:53,920
so oh no we're totally indoors the first

1527
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:56,319
time we've ever had totally indoor cats

1528
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:59,040
and it's diff different world for sure

1529
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,920
yeah

1530
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:01,920
a lot more meowing

1531
00:59:08,710 --> 00:59:02,960
yeah

1532
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:08,720
you know if you start them out that way

1533
00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:10,000
yeah uh

1534
00:59:14,069 --> 00:59:11,839
yeah it's easier

1535
00:59:16,069 --> 00:59:14,079
um you know it's interesting that you

1536
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:16,079
know the whole kind of

1537
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:20,160
takeaway from this for me is

1538
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:22,160
how

1539
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:22,960
you know

1540
00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:26,559
no communication between the air force

1541
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:28,480
um

1542
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:30,240
and

1543
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,079
but you know it's kind of interesting to

1544
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:36,640
me about that is

1545
00:59:40,630 --> 00:59:37,680
that was

1546
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:40,640
we're looking at 1947 1948

1547
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:41,680
and that's

1548
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:44,160
been happening up until

1549
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:46,079
with the case i'm looking at right now

1550
00:59:50,069 --> 00:59:48,160
uh socorro

1551
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:50,079
yeah you know where

1552
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:54,559
um they specifically go to white sands

1553
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:56,160
and they're asking

1554
01:00:00,309 --> 00:59:57,839
for information

1555
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,319
on what they have there on the

1556
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:02,480
automobiles they have there whatever and

1557
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:05,040
they're being told no you know we got

1558
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:06,400
nothing

1559
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:09,359
um but one of the guys

1560
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:11,440
writes on one of the sheets he says i

1561
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:14,640
still feel like the answer to this is

1562
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:16,240
at one of the at least at one of the

1563
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:19,280
tenant organizations within white sands

1564
01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:21,200
you know and

1565
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,359
it's just interesting like why don't

1566
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:25,200
they just freaking talk to each other

1567
01:00:32,069 --> 01:00:27,040
you know

1568
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:32,079
prosecuted world war ii

1569
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:34,240
pretty much and

1570
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:37,200
it took so much effort to slowly build

1571
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:39,680
up all that stuff they held so dearly

1572
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:41,040
you know and

1573
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:42,799
they were not going to

1574
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:45,359
easily give up that's up to a brand new

1575
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:46,480
agency

1576
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:49,359
this is a curveball here to you but um

1577
01:00:53,829 --> 01:00:52,240
this is the mantel signing look at that

1578
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:53,839
it is apparent from the data given that

1579
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:55,680
the objects cited at godman air force

1580
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:59,040
base on 7 january 1948 was not the plan

1581
01:01:01,510 --> 01:01:00,240
of venus

1582
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:01,520
therefore this sighting must be

1583
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:04,559
considered as unexplained

1584
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:07,599
yeah you know we've we talked email-wise

1585
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:08,880
about this

1586
01:01:13,109 --> 01:01:11,119
thing that is so fascinating to me about

1587
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:13,119
this is that

1588
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:14,880
including people to this day that i

1589
01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:17,119
respect ufo researchers you know but

1590
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:18,640
they'll you know well

1591
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:21,200
no no it's clear he got i've passed out

1592
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:23,359
after he reportedly and then said and

1593
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:26,880
then even crashed but when you realize

1594
01:01:31,190 --> 01:01:28,640
when his wingman it says later in the

1595
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:31,200
files you see his wingmen turned back

1596
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:32,240
in one

1597
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:34,000
one is more specific when he asks him

1598
01:01:40,150 --> 01:01:38,160
the wingman says about 18 about 15 18. i

1599
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,160
saw what i thought was like a light

1600
01:01:44,309 --> 01:01:42,480
flashing off a canopy of an aircraft

1601
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:44,319
kind of a flash like that

1602
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:47,359
but well that is the exact moment

1603
01:01:52,789 --> 01:01:50,480
mantel's watch is smashed and frozen

1604
01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:52,799
wow 15 18.

1605
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:55,359
and that is not what he threatened

1606
01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:57,520
when the people that on the farm were

1607
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:59,520
crashed it was like there at four

1608
01:02:02,309 --> 01:02:00,400
o'clock

1609
01:02:03,990 --> 01:02:02,319
he exploded over the trees at four

1610
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:04,000
o'clock in the afternoon

1611
01:02:08,789 --> 01:02:06,880
and how did the plane not

1612
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:08,799
you know just so supposedly it blew up

1613
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:11,280
in mid-air but the pictures like half of

1614
01:02:14,950 --> 01:02:13,520
the plane is there still

1615
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:14,960
you know

1616
01:02:19,510 --> 01:02:17,839
with the wing on there yeah and his body

1617
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:19,520
was removed before the first

1618
01:02:23,829 --> 01:02:22,000
investigator even got there like yeah

1619
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:23,839
how is that possible rushed out there

1620
01:02:28,150 --> 01:02:26,400
really fast and jimmied the

1621
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:28,160
lock on the canopy

1622
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:30,480
pulled him out apparently yeah that

1623
01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:32,880
probably cpr but you would think like

1624
01:02:37,430 --> 01:02:34,640
the whole thing would be

1625
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:37,440
just like obliterated from 20 000 plus

1626
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:40,000
feet up yeah no those witnesses

1627
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:41,680
especially a

1628
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,920
girl at the bus stop

1629
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:45,599
and the lady who owned the ranch or a

1630
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:47,680
farm where he crashed they were both

1631
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:49,200
there and they not only said four

1632
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:50,400
o'clock

1633
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:52,799
it he exploded not too far above the

1634
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:54,960
treetops

1635
01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:56,079
well

1636
01:03:00,150 --> 01:02:58,240
and the guy the only guy in question

1637
01:03:01,829 --> 01:03:00,160
there's this other witness he claims oh

1638
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:01,839
yeah i saw him he was up there at about

1639
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:04,480
20 000 feet doing a loop-de-loop and i'm

1640
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:05,920
thinking now you think about this you

1641
01:03:09,430 --> 01:03:07,920
look right now at an airliner at 20 000

1642
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:09,440
feet from the ground

1643
01:03:12,309 --> 01:03:10,960
and he's talking about a little p-51

1644
01:03:15,109 --> 01:03:12,319
mustang now how would he be able to

1645
01:03:17,109 --> 01:03:15,119
really see him up there at 20 000 feet

1646
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:17,119
be sure that it was why did he know that

1647
01:03:20,789 --> 01:03:18,880
it was twenty thousand feet i believe

1648
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:20,799
that was a seated

1649
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:22,400
might have been a seated witness you

1650
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:24,319
know that they put in there so that that

1651
01:03:28,150 --> 01:03:26,400
two twenty thousand foot altitude thing

1652
01:03:30,549 --> 01:03:28,160
would be uh

1653
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:30,559
you know that's how high he was i don't

1654
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:32,559
know what the witnesses say they heard

1655
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:34,240
him going back and forth and back and

1656
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:35,200
forth

1657
01:03:39,270 --> 01:03:37,200
so that means he he was probably

1658
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:39,280
deceased at the stick

1659
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:40,880
and so every time it turned you know

1660
01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:42,400
then the plane would turn and his body

1661
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:44,559
would flip that way and then his plane

1662
01:03:48,390 --> 01:03:46,400
would go up that way and then his body

1663
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:48,400
would flip this way and it would go

1664
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:50,799
it wasn't about two minutes later when

1665
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:54,079
he crashed it was like 40 minutes

1666
01:03:59,029 --> 01:03:56,160
so what's interesting here we have

1667
01:04:02,309 --> 01:03:59,039
blackwell object traveling at 180 miles

1668
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:02,319
per hour directly ahead of and above me

1669
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:05,280
now and moving at about half my speed

1670
01:04:09,029 --> 01:04:06,880
and then we have

1671
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:09,039
captain kerry carter saying

1672
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:11,200
object going up and forward as fast as

1673
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:14,640
he was approximately 360 degrees then

1674
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:17,119
he's he's quoting mint dell here i

1675
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:19,760
believe but he says going to 20 000 feet

1676
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:23,520
and if no closer will abandon chase

1677
01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:26,720
so the the argument there was he must

1678
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:29,920
have been getting closer

1679
01:04:33,510 --> 01:04:31,440
something well something happened even

1680
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:33,520
before that because remember

1681
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:36,160
his watch is smashed and frozen at time

1682
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:38,720
at five at 3 18

1683
01:04:42,549 --> 01:04:40,960
yeah which is only two minutes after his

1684
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:42,559
last transmission when he said i'm going

1685
01:04:47,750 --> 01:04:46,000
up for a buddy look that's at 3 15.

1686
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:47,760
so two minutes later his watch is

1687
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:50,480
shattered but he did not crash until

1688
01:04:55,510 --> 01:04:53,119
many many minutes after that

1689
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:55,520
so the crash of his plane into the

1690
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:57,359
ground is not what smashed his watch is

1691
01:05:00,789 --> 01:04:58,640
what i'm saying

1692
01:05:03,109 --> 01:05:00,799
that happened earlier what

1693
01:05:04,150 --> 01:05:03,119
did that to his watch that's what i want

1694
01:05:06,230 --> 01:05:04,160
to know

1695
01:05:08,390 --> 01:05:06,240
well i had i was just looking at a

1696
01:05:10,549 --> 01:05:08,400
record not too long ago where the guy's

1697
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:10,559
compass uh

1698
01:05:13,750 --> 01:05:12,799
stopped working when he got by this

1699
01:05:15,910 --> 01:05:13,760
object

1700
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:15,920
that he was vectoring in on and trying

1701
01:05:19,829 --> 01:05:17,520
to find out what it was

1702
01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:19,839
and when the object disappeared uh the

1703
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:22,640
cup has started working again well at

1704
01:05:27,349 --> 01:05:24,480
least hopefully

1705
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:27,359
well that's what he says

1706
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:28,559
yeah

1707
01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:30,160
or he's going in the wrong direction i

1708
01:05:35,109 --> 01:05:31,280
guess so

1709
01:05:36,630 --> 01:05:35,119
he's still missing now that i think yeah

1710
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,640
well that's another thing maybe it

1711
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:38,640
didn't work missing people but like what

1712
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:40,799
was it five planes uh went missing in

1713
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:42,720
bermuda or something

1714
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:44,799
um and then you have the one off of

1715
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:46,960
australia

1716
01:05:53,430 --> 01:05:50,559
and this was in the 70s or something

1717
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:53,440
yeah there's a lot of stuff

1718
01:05:57,109 --> 01:05:54,400
crazy

1719
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:57,119
lots of you know not uh not in here i

1720
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:58,640
mean even though i'm aware of a lot of

1721
01:06:03,029 --> 01:06:01,520
stuff there's so much to this story

1722
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:03,039
yeah

1723
01:06:06,789 --> 01:06:04,799
well i appreciate you coming on sir

1724
01:06:08,789 --> 01:06:06,799
always a pleasure i appreciate it too

1725
01:06:10,309 --> 01:06:08,799
thank you very much uh i

1726
01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:10,319
still you know

1727
01:06:14,789 --> 01:06:12,559
i think i've done enough research for

1728
01:06:17,349 --> 01:06:14,799
myself that i am absolutely convinced

1729
01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:17,359
i still can't say it was that disc that

1730
01:06:21,430 --> 01:06:19,119
landed on the mesa

1731
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:21,440
but something sure as hell happened that

1732
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:23,520
day that just caused so many different

1733
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:24,799
things to happen

1734
01:06:28,789 --> 01:06:27,839
can they not possibly be coincidental

1735
01:06:31,270 --> 01:06:28,799
well even

1736
01:06:32,549 --> 01:06:31,280
flying discs yeah you made the point

1737
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:32,559
that all these

1738
01:06:36,230 --> 01:06:34,400
you know new

1739
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:36,240
um

1740
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:38,880
work orders

1741
01:06:43,270 --> 01:06:41,760
or whatever it like happened when there

1742
01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:43,280
was like a big sighting or something

1743
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:46,240
prompted to do the new thing and there

1744
01:06:51,029 --> 01:06:49,119
was one for march 25th 1948. you know

1745
01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:51,039
yes i mean it's quoted a lot what

1746
01:06:56,230 --> 01:06:53,920
happened on that day yeah

1747
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,240
well i keep looking you know i've seen

1748
01:07:01,190 --> 01:06:58,240
things from other places in other parts

1749
01:07:03,829 --> 01:07:01,200
of the world but not for us yet you know

1750
01:07:06,230 --> 01:07:03,839
on that date yeah

1751
01:07:07,829 --> 01:07:06,240
well i'm not done yet like like i said

1752
01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:07,839
like i found a lot of those socorro

1753
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:09,839
documents in a completely different

1754
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:12,319
folder for a different state you know

1755
01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:14,480
right i've seen that too so

1756
01:07:19,109 --> 01:07:17,039
who knows there's so many

1757
01:07:22,069 --> 01:07:19,119
there yet it could be

1758
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:22,079
it could still be available somewhere

1759
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:24,000
yeah you know like a lot of these

1760
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:26,240
archives only have like 100 views or

1761
01:07:29,589 --> 01:07:28,240
less or whatever so it's not like people

1762
01:07:31,510 --> 01:07:29,599
are just combing through them looking

1763
01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:31,520
for this stuff you know it can totally

1764
01:07:35,670 --> 01:07:32,960
be missed

1765
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:35,680
yeah nobody has the time

1766
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,589
you got me i'm there

1767
01:07:48,309 --> 01:07:46,230
they show you like the most uh where the

1768
01:07:49,510 --> 01:07:48,319
visitors are from like the top

1769
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:49,520
visitors

1770
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:50,559
uh for

1771
01:07:57,430 --> 01:07:53,119
for like the blue book file or whatever

1772
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:57,440
and it's uh wisconsin

1773
01:08:01,430 --> 01:07:58,960
it doesn't say the city but it says

1774
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:01,440
wisconsin like 300 some visits it's like

1775
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:02,880
well it's got a

1776
01:08:06,549 --> 01:08:04,880
i guess i'm the one looking at this the

1777
01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:06,559
most uh man

1778
01:08:11,589 --> 01:08:08,640
you find out it's not you it's like this

1779
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:11,599
12 year old kid

1780
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:18,670
20 000 more hits hits

1781
01:08:23,990 --> 01:08:21,199
[Laughter]

1782
01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:24,000
all right well i i'm gonna get out of

1783
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:25,359
here

1784
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:27,359
i'm gonna be more

1785
01:08:31,349 --> 01:08:29,520
keep uh getting together my stuff for

1786
01:08:32,950 --> 01:08:31,359
tomorrow because i want to do a good job

1787
01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:32,960
with that i have a lot of interesting

1788
01:08:38,149 --> 01:08:35,520
information to share so yeah looking

1789
01:08:40,309 --> 01:08:38,159
forward to that and we'll see you next

1790
01:08:42,309 --> 01:08:40,319
time continue to rest up

1791
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:42,319
so you can get back here and do it again

1792
01:08:47,590 --> 01:08:43,920
i'll see you in the chat

1793
01:08:49,189 --> 01:08:47,600
all right peace take care bye

1794
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:49,199
all right thanks everybody for hanging

1795
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:51,040
out that was a

1796
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:54,400
pretty great talk with mr robert cofort

1797
01:09:00,650 --> 01:08:57,040
and yeah that's what you get here

1798
01:09:02,660 --> 01:09:00,660
deep diving details and documents

1799
01:09:11,940 --> 01:09:02,670
[Laughter]

1800
01:09:13,190 --> 01:09:11,950
[Music]

1801
01:09:13,730 --> 01:09:13,200
[Laughter]

1802
01:09:14,820 --> 01:09:13,740
[Music]

1803
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:14,830
[Applause]

1804
01:09:25,260 --> 01:09:22,799
[Music]

1805
01:09:27,910 --> 01:09:25,270
even with the western winds

1806
01:09:29,590 --> 01:09:27,920
[Music]

1807
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:29,600
taking me away

1808
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:36,709
don't need a telescope to see

1809
01:09:48,630 --> 01:09:39,250
where we need to live free

1810
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:51,370
and this is for all the voices

1811
01:09:57,090 --> 01:09:53,759
[Music]

1812
01:10:00,310 --> 01:09:57,100
who couldn't hear these noises

1813
01:10:04,350 --> 01:10:00,320
[Music]

1814
01:10:14,950 --> 01:10:04,360
[Laughter]

1815
01:10:19,350 --> 01:10:14,960
[Music]

1816
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:19,360
all roads lead to a sudden departure

1817
01:10:24,390 --> 01:10:20,960
although

1818
01:10:31,410 --> 01:10:24,400
when we bleed we go farther

1819
01:10:48,670 --> 01:10:41,840
[Music]

1820
01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:48,680
meaning is blurry as it gets attention

1821
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:50,560
[Music]

1822
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:56,000
as i get closer here comes another

1823
01:11:01,350 --> 01:10:58,560
filled up in my room with documents in

1824
01:11:06,290 --> 01:11:03,669
gotta go the distance or you'll end up

1825
01:11:08,310 --> 01:11:06,300
with torture

1826
01:11:22,070 --> 01:11:08,320
[Music]

1827
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:31,310
many eyes on the sky

1828
01:12:14,310 --> 01:11:37,990
[Music]

1829
01:12:25,830 --> 01:12:17,510
this is for all the voices

1830
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:29,270
around the voices